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Knowing yourself in poker (final version, can we get a edit post button on here please!!?)
SkinnySumo wrote
at 6:36 AM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
This quote from Sun Tzu applies to poker so well. "It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Table image simply put is how others around the table see you and how you see others.

I'll include a small section on the gbingo tables (5k buyins) before heading to the meat and potatoes of the article.
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(5k buy in tables, or gbingo)

You jump into these tables hoping to play standard poker. You make a standard raise with your Ace,Queen with 150 chips (3 times the 50 blinds). First thing you're met with is an all in. You're shocked and wonder what is going on with these people as everybody goes all in.

For the most part these folks have the 8 mile song from Eminem going on in their heads. "You better lose yourself in the music, the moment
You own it, you better never let it go
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime"

Then when they win with 8,3 offsuit they tell themselves..."I knew I was good!"

At this table you'll see lots of 1,500 all in preflop bets. Realize its going to be a pocket pair vs high Ace card battle. The more people in the pot the less powerful high cards like aces or high pocket pairs like pocket Kings ect become.

So if you have pocket 6's and up or an Ace 10 and up, or a suited Ace then shove all in if everybody is doing it, your odds are about equal. Hope to survive the launching of the gbingo nukes, get your 10k and get the heck out of there and to the real tables, the 20k buy ins.
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(10k/20k buyin tables, where real poker pops its head out)

Ok now to the meat and potatoes of this article. First know yourself.
When you first come into a room people don't know you, so they are going to call you down to see what you have. You can play it two ways. Here lets give an example.

You have Ace(c),Queen(h)

Flop comes down

Ah,Qc,5d

The pot is 2000 and you bet 1000 into it. The only other caller with his A,9 calls. Pot is now 4000.

The turn shows Ah,Qc,5d,3s. The 3 of spades helps no one and you now bet 2500 into this 4000 pot. The other guy calls and now the pot is 9000.

The river comes Ah,Qc,5d,3s,Qs. You bet your last 11,000 into this 9000 pot. Your opponent with his A,9 thinks you might be trying to steal the pot and calls. You show your full house and take down a nice 31k pot.

Your credit rating in the room just went up. A similar hand plays out and you win, but this time a smaller pot, only 21k.

You continue winning but your pots get smaller why? Well because people see you as honest and when you bet strong people think you have it. They believe you play overcards (Jacks and up) and bet strong when they hit the flop. So they're folding faster if they don't have anything or if they have overcards with weak kickers.
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Being seen as honest can be a bad thing long term because over time you'll get paid less for your big hands. Remember poker isn't about winning the most hands, its about winning the most when you do win!

If I'm being seen as ultra honest I like to borrow against my name.

I'm on the button and I have 9d,10d, I raise the 200 blind to 500, 2.5 times the blind. People are like Oh my, another overcard with a high kicker from honest Sumo.

The flop comes down

K(h), 4(s), 9(c) and the pot is 3000.

I bet 1500 into it and folks are like, honest sumo and his King, everybody folds except Mr. Loose with his K,8 offsuit. He calls my 1500 bet and now the pot is 6000. The turn comes

K(h),4(s),9(c),J(d)

I bet 4500 into this 6000 pot and my opponent is thinking. God damn honest sumo, freaking lucky with his KJ I fold. I take the 6k pot when I really only had a 9 on the flop, but I made it seem like I had a King and later a Jack.

I told the same old story of honest sumo, raising preflop and betting like I usually do when I have the cards. I used my honest name and borrowed 6k. If people aren't going to pay me big anymore might as well take out low interest loans right? The whole reason why this play worked is because I knew folks saw me as honest,never bluffs. OK you're asking but what if he called you down to the river and his king beat your 9.
You were caught bluffing, haha! Well that may not be a bad thing..say what??!!
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You can see all the shocked, angry and broken hearts of honest sumo being caught bluffing! "I knew you were bluffing!" "I believed in you Sumo, I thought you were the last beacon of hope in a dark, bluffing world!...I'm going to cry now!"

What to do now? Easy, don't bluff anymore, tighten up and bet big on your cards now when you have them!

Here is an example of how to use your liar, liar, pants on fire image!

You have Ace(h),3(h)

You're in late position and again raise to 500, everybody calls you because no one believes you anymore. So the pot is 4500 with everybody in.

The flop comes down

A(d),4(h),6(h).

Everybody checks and you bet 2000 into it, Everybody except 2 others fold. Even better these 2 check raise you 6000. You call and this 4500 pot just became 20,500! You figure these guys either have an ace or are on flush draws themselves.

The turn comes

A(d),4(h),6(h),10(h). Bingo we have the nut flush now!

The other two have hit their flush as well, one guy has a queen high flush, the other the Kig high flush!

You bet your remaining 12,000 into the 20,500 pot and the rest instantly call because you're lying sumo and they are going to make you pay!.... The river comes and doesn't play a role.

You show your opponents your Ace high flush and you take down a very nice 56,500 pot! You were able to get paid off because you got caught bluffing earlier, people were going to make lying sumo pay!

But hey you knew folks saw you as a liar and you took advantage of it!

You play a few more hands, and again it goes to showdown because folks still don't believe you. You win big and now the tide starts to shift again!

"Maybe Sumo has repented of his bluffing ways!?" "My honest hero, Sumo is back...yay!"

You start to notice more folding and less payouts again, you know what you need to do now right? Borrow against your honest image again. All you're doing is shifting gears. Bluffing a bit more when you know folks see you as honest, and tightening up and playing straight up poker when folks see you as a liar.
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Remember folks are likely to see you as honest, if they :

1. See you fold a lot preflop and only play real hands.
2. Go to showdown a few times and show that you had the goods.
3. Start folding more to your bets, or it takes smaller bet sizes to keep them in the pot.

You're more likely to be seen as a liar if they:

1. See you playing lots more hands than usual.
2. They haven't seen you go to showdown in awhile. Even if you had the goods all hands they'll start distrusting you.
3. They start check raising almost every bet you make.
4. Call you down with middle or bottom pairs.

Remember folks tend to remember the last 2-4 hands you were in for the most part. Know how folks see you at the table and then take advantage. Know yourself and you can play it to your advantage!

2 people think this is a good idea




Replies 1 - 7 of 7
SkinnySumo wrote
at 6:39 AM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
I sincerely apologize for the other 2 posts. I swear I'm not trying to spam.

Its just the first post I cut and paste and didn't notice the messed up symbols.

The 2nd post I took out the messed up symbols but forgot to the the line breaks. Without those it looks like one big paragraph and who wants to read that?

I looked for an edit button but didn't find any. If I had that I would have just edited the first post on the first thread.

If a mod or someone can delete the other two threads I'd appreciate it.

If not I'll be extremely careful in the future in proofreading when posting here. Thanks and hope everyone enjoys the article despite me messing up posting it!
JulesDogg wrote
at 8:30 AM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
Again, nice to see a poker related post on the forum.

I agree that table image is important and you should constantly adjust your play according to how you feel image is perceived.

Bear in mind though that gpokr is a unique variant of hold'em. 99% of players make no effort whatsoever to get a read on others or tag them as a calling station, rock, loose or whatever.

In your 2nd example with the T9, imho you'd have a hard time getting the noob to lay down K2, K8 never.

By all mean use image to advantage but don't rely on these guys to fold weak hands.... THEY CALL BOTTOM PAIR TO THE RIVER LOL
cottonhead wrote
at 12:04 PM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
Skinny I don't really know you & have absolutlely nothing against you but as far as poker odds & logic are concerned you're wasting your time here. I came here in 07 & medaled (many times high)for several months then became extremely burnt out on the type of play or lack there of that goes on here. Recently I came back & tried & again medaled for several in a row & again I'm pretty burnt out so as soon as you realise that this isn't a poker site the better off you'll be. I wish you luck but you're better off working, or going to a movie, or just seeking other forms of entertainment than wasting your time here. This is a game for squirrels & when you play with the squirrels to long you get your nuts cracked. If you really like it np, but one day you'll get very, very tired of it to. GL & have fun while it lasts.
SkinnySumo wrote
at 3:30 PM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
I understand where you're coming from cotton. I know most folks on here play any hand, call with any pair, and don't know about odds.

For them I just play straight up ABC poker. The mathematical odds I explained are very easy and thats usually all I need with these folks.

I can read a board, see that I have my ace on the board along with a flush draw on the flop. I bet big, they follow, I get flush, raise big, they call and I take down a big pot. Or if they bet big and I need two cards to make a set I look at those odds, see that they're bad and fold.

I'm still learning this game, but gpoker gives me a place to practice. Right now I'm trying to get better at hand reading.

I have a good time playing, getting to chat with folks. The play money allows me to practice some moves, and reading cards.

My goal isn't really a top 100 medal, but to continue learning the game, and trying out new things.

The higher tables I notice here need a bit more than ABC poker to win, so maybe these strategies will help. I plan on writing more, if nothing else to help me organize my poker thoughts.
boosh wrote
at 11:05 PM, Saturday March 5, 2011 EST
whatcha got against squirrels, cotton??
:(
"pebble" wrote
at 5:21 AM, Sunday March 6, 2011 EST
Great post... nice to see..... keep up the good work!!
Minitiger wrote
at 5:54 AM, Sunday March 6, 2011 EST
Sumo, I liked it:)
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