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How to bet and get money out of your hands
SkinnySumo wrote
at 3:16 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
One of the more common mistakes I see made in poker is folks not getting the most money out of their hands.

Someone might have 10,8 offsuit and flop 10,10,8. They don't bet their hand and maybe win 1000 dollars for their effort (assume its a 20k buyin room). Everybody says "nice hand". While it may have been a nice hand you were dealt, it wasn't a nice hand played. You didn't get max value out of your hand.

Remember, poker isn't about winning the most hands, but winning the most money from your hands. If you only played 5 hands the whole night and won 3 of them that would be ok, as long as those 3 hands were monster pots.
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Remember when you're betting you need to use the current pot size as your guide, your compass so to speak.

If a pot is currently 1000 you can do a few options.

Bet 1/3 the pot, or about 333

Bet 1/2 the pot or 500

Bet 2/3 the pot or about 750

Bet a pot size bet of 1000

Over bet the pot with a bet of 2000
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1/3 the pot or (the lure)

I would classify the 1/3 pot bet as more of a slow play tactic. When you have already flopped a strong hand but want to keep folks in, for at least one round of betting.

For example you have Ah,Qh

The flop comes down Ac,5h,7h....Qc....9h

The pot size is 2000 and there are 4 people in the hand with me. On the flop I have top pair and a flush draw. So I'll bet 600. The reason is that while the Ace is out there the two hearts will keep some chasers in. The pot grows to 4400. I get the Queen on the turn and now have top two pair. There isn't any straight possiblity to worry about and no one has raised heavily representing a set. So I want to keep the heart and possibly club chasers in. So I bet about 1500, they all call and the pot is now 10,400. I get the flush on the end and still bet a 1/3. Here about 3000.

Why you ask? Because in the other players minds they have to pay 3000 to win 10,400. Not a bad investment. If two others call thats an extra 6000 in your pocket. If they reraise you even better! Just slightly reraise until finally he tries to push you off all in, you call and take down a big pot!

That play worked because the board texture was that of a flush draw. Your opponents had enough rope to hang themselves, as they were chasing.
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1/2 (the doubt)

The goal of 1/2 pot bets is to chase away enough players to either protect your hand or semi-bluff your hand. It leaves your opponents in doubt. They will either need to fold, raise you to clarify the hand or simply call and stay in doubt.

Say you have 6s,7s

The flop comes down 5h,8s,Qs...4h.....2c

Here the pot is 1000. We have a flush draw but we really want the straight as our flush is kind of weak. We bet 500 and we're representing the queen.

Everybody except one guy calls. The pot is 2000 and we figure him for the queen. The 4 comes on the turn and we get our straight. Here we make our next move.
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2/3 the pot or (the move)

Here we have the top straight, but we don't want a 9 coming out or another spade. Yes we have a flush draw ourselves but its kind of weak. So with the pot at 2000 we bet 1500. Here we're telling the guy we have a strong hand and to get off.

If he calls the pot is at 5000, if he folds we still made a decent 2000 pot for a weakish hand. If he raises to 3000 we simply flat call.

Say he does call and the pot is 5000 on the turn and the river comes and its a 2 that does nothing. Well here we value bet or "lure" the guy with a 1500 bet. If he has two pair he might call or even if he has a queen. He calls and we take down a nice 8000 pot.
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Pot size bet (the bomb)

The bomb is used when you want to get people off your hand right away on the flop.

For example you have As,Kh and you bet preflop to 500, everybody calls (thats gpoker) and the pot is 4500.

The flop comes down Ah,3h,Ks....6s

Here you have top two pair and you don't want the flush chasers to outdraw you. So you bet 4500 right off the bat. The goal is to protect your top two pair. Everybody except one guy calls. He either has an Ace, Ace-3, or a flush draw.

the pot is at 13,000 and you don't want another 3 or heart to come out so you bomb him again, this time a 13k bet. He folds and you take down the pot. If he calls well you're going to have to go all in with whatever you have left on the river.

Bombs are big plays, and should be used to protect made hands, and to take down decent sized pots on the flop.
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Overbet or (the nuke)

Lets go over the same example and you have As,Kh

Again the flop comes down Ah,3h,Ks,6s

Instead of bombing the 4500 pot with another 4500 bet we can escalate this even further! We can bet 10,000 into the pot!

We're basically telling folks "Get off my pot!!". The trouble is people might read this as "he's obviously bluffing" and they'll either call or reraise you all in. Now you're ahead and you can call the all in, but basically you're betting blind the last two streets and hoping your hand holds up.

A nuke causes damage to your opponent but also yourself, as you can be blown up by your own explosion. Basically your opponent can suck out on you and take all your money.

By the same token you can win a HUGE pot and cause fear amongst your opponents as now you have a huge stack, and have shown your not afraid to "nuke" the poker field!

A nuke is basically meant to protect your one or two pair hand, or to steal the hand right there.

Its a dangerous play, you better know the risks when you're "nuking!"
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You don't want to nuke when you flop something like Quads.

Say you have 4h,4s

The flop comes down 4c,4h,Ah

Here you have the absolute nuts! Why would you nuke? You're chasing off the guys who might have an Ace, or the flush drawers!

Here just use the 1/3 bet (the lure) and keep them in for as long as you can. Let some hearts hit the board, let another ace hit ect. If you over bet all you do is take down a small pot and waste a very rare hand!
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Remember use the pot as your compass and think of the bet sizes in relation to the pot!

In summary

1/3 pot (the lure)- Use to keep folks in the pot for at least one street. Use it when you have top pair or two pair on a dry board (one that doesn't have an immediate flush draw present, like Ah,6d,2c). Also a good way to end the betting on the river.

1/2 pot (doubt)- Use this to find out where your middle to drawish hands stand. Or use it as a slight escaltion of the lure. You can bet 1/2 the pot in the same situation I outlined above. Top pair or two pair in a dryish board. Use this to chase some folks off, and to not tip the strength of your hand! Also a good tool to get some more money out of folks on the river, as they won't know if you're trying to buy the pot or not. The risk is they might get scared and you lose some money on the river. Also a low risk way to steal the pot if you have nothing on the river.

2/3 pot (the move)- use this to really start clearing folks out of the hand. Your telling folks you mean business. Your basically telling them the party is about to end and they need to start packing up and going home.

Full pot (the bomb)- You're using this to protect a premium top two pair or trips/sets from flush draws or straight draws. This move starts escalating the stress/tension in poker, so be prepared for a fight if folks resist. In which case keep bombing them to the stone age!

Overbet (the nuke!)- Again this is a line in the sand move. "NO more!" is what you're screaming. Folks might see you as bluffing and try to come over the top of you. What you started is WWIII on gpoker. Nukes (all ins) will be launched and you better know you're going to win. One person will become grand superpower of the table, while the others will fear/loathe you. The fall out of you "being the bully" will linger.

But hey as long as you win thats all that matters! Use the nuke move sparingly!
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Hope that helps! Any questions you can ask here and I'll try to answer!

3 people think this is a good idea




Replies 1 - 10 of 11 Next › Last »
71181 wrote
at 3:18 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
no offence sumo, nice posts an stuff but why dont u ever have any chips??? if u talk a good game???
SkinnySumo wrote
at 3:59 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
I don't play as often here anymore, a few hands here and there now.

Only been playing 3 months total. First month here didn't realize you didn't keep your money.

I play mostly with the intent of growing my stack. Which works on other sites where you keep your money.

Gpoker is more about winning the monthly competition. So you see folks doing more crazy wild plays to win super big pots fast.

Also folks here have multiple accounts and some folks loan chips ect.

I'm also more of a conservative player by nature. I fold when I've lost.

Since its play money most folks will call you down with anything and suck out on you.

But I play the same way, aggressive when I have a good hand.

Its monthly competition with play money.

So folks want to win the competition and don't have the patience to play with skill on the flop, so they'll go all in every play or make crazy all ins every time.

Since its play money there is no risk and they don't care.

Play for real money and over a period of time in which your goal is to increase your bankroll and well things change.

I just play here for fun, chat with folks and relax. I really don't care if I get a medal here or not.

Just trying to help educate folks and better their games when they play on other sites that lets them keep their money, or for real money.

JulesDogg wrote
at 4:04 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
Very nice to see positive, poker related, contributions to the forums. If Sumo is full of theory and still learning how to put it in to practice then all power to him.

Keep em coming Sumo.



catt62 wrote
at 4:34 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
woot woot. i agree whole heartly with sumo.right on target.couldnt have said it better myself.
Siouxlander wrote
at 6:11 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
john why be rude? if u dont have anything nice to say dont say any thing
SkinnySumo wrote
at 6:25 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
Thanks Jules. I've been playing a total of about 4 or 5 months of poker period. I saw it on espn or something and thought it was cool.

My first online poker was on xbox live, a mini game on "Red Dead Redemption". I really didn't know what beat what back then. Had to write down the hand chart and look at it during play.

Also didn't really study the board back then, just saw "oh look a pair, or two pair" and just bet. Not bothering to look for flush draws or straight draws.

Gradually I went online to study the wealth of poker material out there. I quickly improved my game and won those 6 man max-sit n go's.

I followed the advice of one chris ferguson. About never buying in for more than 5% of your bankroll, 10% tops.

The reason is there is variance in poker, which is a nice way of saying luck/suckouts. There has to be that in poker, if not nobody would ever play, as only top cards and odds would win out.

Good players have to pay the price of an occassional suck out or two in order to profit off the bad players long term.

On gpoker the first month I kept playing the 5k tables telling myself when I get 300k then I'll move up to the higher tables. I almost grinded my way to a top 100 finish just on the 5k buyins.

But since this is a monthly competition in a cash game format you have a unique setup. Here in order to win you need to move up the tables quickly.

You may have 50 or 70k and want to move up the tables to catch up in the competition. So now at the 20k buy ins you're risking 33% or more of your stack on one session.

One bad beat and you've lost most of your stack. In a more traditional setup you'd be grinding your way till that 20k loss wasn't much of your overall bankroll.

That is why the madness style is profitable here. If everybody who was playing the 20k tables had like 2 million in their bankroll they'd mop the floor with those all in folks.

Sure the all-in guys (all the time) would suck out here and there, but long run they'd lose their entire stack fast.

On here the skilled players and the no so skilled are pretty much all on the same field.

Over the long run (100 times) I might beat that bad player 80 out of 100 times.

Only problem is most folks don't have the 2 million necessary to flip that coin 100 times.

You only have enough for maybe 3 or 5 all in bets.
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The goal of the all in guy is to make poker more of a slot machine contest. He might have 60k but if he can get 4 or 5 people all in now he's gambling 20k to win 100k.

He sucks out and now he has 120k. He flips the coin again and loses, he now has 100k. He goes all in again and wins with the 4 or 5 people calling. He wins again and has 200k now.

He then leaves. Now you might have had AK or AQ against his 67 suited, or J4 offsuit and lost both times. Now you've lost 2/3rd of your stack.

Does that make you a bad player relative to the guy who sucked out?

Is the guy who won 400k for the day playing the slot machine style really the best and most skilled of gpoker??

The monthly competition format, the fact that in order to win you have to risk more of your stack than you'd like, and the fact that this format benefits the high variance/high risk gambling players are all factors one has to take into consideration.
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So for all the reasons listed above I just play for fun here and to chat with folks.

I've improved my skills alot. I can instantly look at a board and know whether I've lost or won. I can calculate my odds of hitting my hand pretty fast now. I can look at the bets relative to the pot and use that to decide whether to continue or to fold.

I use position alot more to set up plays/semi-bluffs. I've gotten better at reading player types and how to approach them. My next step is trying to put folks on hand ranges. I'm getting better on that, but still learning as most folks range on here is pretty broad considering most junk is played.

I make mistakes just like anyone else. But I'm getting better and learning. I've come a long way in 4 or so months. Give me a year or two at the same rate of learning and I think I'll be an even better player!

Writing these posts helps me as much as it helps anyone else.

Thank you to all for the positive comments! I'm just trying to contribute to a site I enjoy playing on and interacting with. :)
52. wrote
at 8:56 PM, Friday March 18, 2011 EDT
Another good post man. Keep up the good work.
w0lf wrote
at 1:09 PM, Tuesday March 22, 2011 EDT
bump
ALBERTO DEL RIO wrote
at 12:19 PM, Friday March 25, 2011 EDT
JUST PLAY YOUR CARDS FUCK ALL THAT SHIT
SkinnySumo wrote
at 5:58 PM, Friday March 25, 2011 EDT
If any body plays on xbox live be sure to check out Full House poker. My xbox live screen name is StudiousSquid. So if you play there just send me a friend request. We can play on Full House or we can just chat doesn't matter.

Its fun because besides the poker you can dress up your avatar, do chip tricks, and better yet use the headset to talk to each other.

I still play on here occassionaly and will do some future articles. But mostly I play on full house now.

Take care.
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